Tori Amos interview
Late last year I got the chance to interview flame-haired, piano-playing, rock goddess Tori Amos about her, then, new DVD/CD Live At Montreux. Meeting her I was astonished at just how petite and beautiful she is in the flesh, almost like a porcelain doll. Of course it didn't hurt she had just finished a photo shoot in the next room (which the new album promos appear to be from funnily enough) but her hair was perfect and startlingly red and her skin immaculate. But more than that I was pleasantly surprised at just how down to earth, unkooky and smart she was. Seeing as she has just released her new album Abnormally Attracted To Sin, I thought I'd post the transcript in full as she says some pretty interesting things about the ideas behind the new record as well as her thoughts on the music industry today, going independent, working with Robert Plant and of course her DVD releases.
I know a lot of fans are excited about this release because it’s a tour that hasn’t been documented on DVD before. Did you know the footage existed? How did it all come about?
I know a lot of fans are excited about this release because it’s a tour that hasn’t been documented on DVD before. Did you know the footage existed? How did it all come about?
Well how this all transpired is that I ran into Claude Nobs when I did Montreux last and he said to me “are you aware that I have your first ever performanc
e probably in the world for Little Earthquakes?” and I said, no I didn’t know that. And I didn’t look at it at the time, but he said, “would you be open, if I sent it to you, would you be open to looking at it and looking at the one after?” And I have to tell you, he’s somebody who documents, he’s been documenting artists for many, many years and he showed me a long time ago a documentation of Aretha Franklin playing the piano in the 60s. So he keeps everything and he said Montreux has a tradition of having new artists come and they don’t even realise that they’re being filmed. Because the cameras are just on all the time, they film everything so you’re not as conscious of it as, say, a TV show that you’re doing. So I didn’t even remember that this existed. The cameras are set, they feel like they’re locked off, they’re on all sides of you. So when you walk on, especially as a new artist, you’re not aware, it’s not as if people are running around with cameras, so I didn’t remember there being any cameras, so I didn’t know it existed. That’s why when he sent it to me I was surprised that we even had it on record.
e probably in the world for Little Earthquakes?” and I said, no I didn’t know that. And I didn’t look at it at the time, but he said, “would you be open, if I sent it to you, would you be open to looking at it and looking at the one after?” And I have to tell you, he’s somebody who documents, he’s been documenting artists for many, many years and he showed me a long time ago a documentation of Aretha Franklin playing the piano in the 60s. So he keeps everything and he said Montreux has a tradition of having new artists come and they don’t even realise that they’re being filmed. Because the cameras are just on all the time, they film everything so you’re not as conscious of it as, say, a TV show that you’re doing. So I didn’t even remember that this existed. The cameras are set, they feel like they’re locked off, they’re on all sides of you. So when you walk on, especially as a new artist, you’re not aware, it’s not as if people are running around with cameras, so I didn’t remember there being any cameras, so I didn’t know it existed. That’s why when he sent it to me I was surprised that we even had it on record.
How did it feel going back to look at the footage all these years on?
It’s funny, I saw it with Mark [Hawley, Tori's husband]. He looked at it first because I didn’t want to look at it first. He was checking it out sonically and we were hoping that it was a two-track but it wasn’t so we were stuck with whatever somebody was doing at the boards at the time. We could do things in mastering but we were pretty limited. And yet he said, it’s not damaged, we can work around that. And then he said I think you should really look at 91 because it’s really magical. He said, 92 you can tell there’s a lot more spit and polish involved and, because I know your process, I can tell from your arms that you’ve done about a 100 shows from the turquoise outfit to the red because you can just see in the shoulders. I had played lots and lots of shows from this one to the next one and he said you can tell that woman took a journey but there was different pressure. There was no pressure really on the 91 because nobody knew who I was.
I know you’ve said you suffered a lot from nerves back then, did watching it bring all that back?
I think that, for whatever reason this specific performance might have been different to other performances at that time because I’d never been to Switzerland before. I was playing small clubs in London. Sometimes the only people who would come see me were the bands after me who took pity on me and would have their friends come and sit for me. Because I was American I had no friends here, except my black friend Karen Benz, who had white Jean Harlow hair and would walk into a room and say “what’s up girl?” You know and that would be all who would come and see me. I really didn’t play to a proper audience with this material until I went to Montreux. In a way it was walking into a very different situation. I’d been playing professionally for 13 years in piano lounges but other people’s music. So when I had the opportunity to play these songs that were kind of personal opposed to doing cover songs for four or five hours a night it’s a very different job. It’s a very different performance when you’re doing covers, so when I did this maybe certain elements came together, a sense of being Dorothy on the yellow brick road for that one moment in time. And then I had to go back to playing those little clubs where nobody would come until the media started to come and once the media started to come then people would come like that came to Montreux but not on that scale until the album broke.
There are some great covers on here from Nirvana to Led Zeppelin and they are quite unusual songs for a woman to sing. Do you have a preference covering songs by men and giving them a different spin?
I think a cover is tricky and because I was jobbing for so many years doing covers, I’ve done a lot that don’t work. And usually when you’re doing another female artist’s work you kind of have to say to yourself, can I give something that that female didn’t already give or do? Or do I just love this song so much and it means something so personal to me? When I did Landslide, that was my brother’s favourite song, the most important song for him, and I played it at his funeral. So I would do [Fleetwood Mac's] Landslide for my brother and that would be the reason. I was doing that in the early 90s. Or Joni Mitchell: I would do Case Of You because that was something really important to me or Rickie Lee Jones, Summer Of 63, and I’m really fond of Rickie as a human being, so there are certain associations that I have when I do a female cover. But when I take on a male cover what’s so thrilling is that a lot of them are talking about women so to be the woman talking about the woman crawling into his head and thinking what he’s thinking, I really love that twist. So doing Thank You and doing Whole Lotta Love and doing Teen Spirit, I thought for the time a lot of women weren’t doing male covers at the time but it’s something that’s got more popular over the years.
I think a cover is tricky and because I was jobbing for so many years doing covers, I’ve done a lot that don’t work. And usually when you’re doing another female artist’s work you kind of have to say to yourself, can I give something that that female didn’t already give or do? Or do I just love this song so much and it means something so personal to me? When I did Landslide, that was my brother’s favourite song, the most important song for him, and I played it at his funeral. So I would do [Fleetwood Mac's] Landslide for my brother and that would be the reason. I was doing that in the early 90s. Or Joni Mitchell: I would do Case Of You because that was something really important to me or Rickie Lee Jones, Summer Of 63, and I’m really fond of Rickie as a human being, so there are certain associations that I have when I do a female cover. But when I take on a male cover what’s so thrilling is that a lot of them are talking about women so to be the woman talking about the woman crawling into his head and thinking what he’s thinking, I really love that twist. So doing Thank You and doing Whole Lotta Love and doing Teen Spirit, I thought for the time a lot of women weren’t doing male covers at the time but it’s something that’s got more popular over the years.
I know you went on to work with Robert Plant, how was he to work with, did he like your covers?
Oh yeah, he asked me to marry him and that was one of the greatest days of my life. [laughs] Yeah but he’s not serious. I think millions of women would love to joke with him about getting married to him but he’s playing with you because he’s probably the best flirt from here to Andromeda, I would say the best flirt in the galaxy. He’s been more of a mentor for me than anything else. When things got a bit shaky with Atlantic Records after Doug Morris
left and Max Hole left everything changed and it became more about stock shares and AOL Warner and all of that. So Doug and Max broke this, it was Doug’s idea to send me to England, you know he runs Universal now, but when he was there it was more music-driven and Max in England was driving the music side. So when they left and I was with a lot of people Stateside as well as UK who were more involved in their stock shares than the music, Robert came to see me, he came to see me at The Greek in LA when I was really at the end of my patience and he talked to me about weathering storms within the industry. He said you have to not become victimised by corporate because there’s going to be rough seas for artists, but if you’re going to make it through a generation, if you’re going to have a 30-year career, then you’ll go through different producers, different heads of labels, different people and there will be some relationships that don’t click, there will be people with different agendas than you and he gave me some really strong advice to not lose my focus on the muse, and make my focus on the war. He said you’re not going to change them, you’re not going to start getting them to care about music again more than their stock shares, you’re wasting your time, you need to manoeuvre yourself out of this situation and partner with people that do care about it.
So you’ve recently split from Epic and gone independent…
I’ve gone independent but I’m looking at doing more of a joint venture deal because if you’re going to distribute internationally you need a powerful distributor behind you. So yeah, I can make myself an indie label and say go with a Red or a Fontana, which, you know Red is Sony’s distribution, so I’d kind of be sleeping with my ex’s brother, and Fontana, well Doug Morris runs that, but that’s kind of like my very first husband’s son’s company. So you think, well, after you look at all your options, I want to be independent but more a partnership. I think you have to look at what the big guns can offer on a distribution level, to get it to work. I still haven’t given up on the physical, to me artwork and packaging, just holding it, is very important and I know a lot of people just care about the digital but I feel the visual and the sonic are really, I don’t know, it’s a really chemical, sexy marriage. And if I am only an indie then to distribute it is a tricky thing worldwide, to get it physically – digitally it’s not tricky but if I want people in Egypt or Poland to be able to hold it in their hands then you have to look at the distribution side. So I’ll never do a record deal like I did in the past where I’m just an artist. What that means is that I’m fronting all the money for a project that I’m working on now which is very visually based, filmic and with new music. Not soundtrack music, but a record that has all moving picture with it.
I’ve gone independent but I’m looking at doing more of a joint venture deal because if you’re going to distribute internationally you need a powerful distributor behind you. So yeah, I can make myself an indie label and say go with a Red or a Fontana, which, you know Red is Sony’s distribution, so I’d kind of be sleeping with my ex’s brother, and Fontana, well Doug Morris runs that, but that’s kind of like my very first husband’s son’s company. So you think, well, after you look at all your options, I want to be independent but more a partnership. I think you have to look at what the big guns can offer on a distribution level, to get it to work. I still haven’t given up on the physical, to me artwork and packaging, just holding it, is very important and I know a lot of people just care about the digital but I feel the visual and the sonic are really, I don’t know, it’s a really chemical, sexy marriage. And if I am only an indie then to distribute it is a tricky thing worldwide, to get it physically – digitally it’s not tricky but if I want people in Egypt or Poland to be able to hold it in their hands then you have to look at the distribution side. So I’ll never do a record deal like I did in the past where I’m just an artist. What that means is that I’m fronting all the money for a project that I’m working on now which is very visually based, filmic and with new music. Not soundtrack music, but a record that has all moving picture with it.
Your situation reminds me of Sonic Youth, who recently split from Universal to go independent, because they said they felt too much pressure from their record company, which is surprising given you’d think that Universal would expect them to be experimental…
You can if you have that kind of deal but when you’re a joint venture with anybody, whoever you do it with, you’re your own entity because you front all the money. When you front all the money, you’re not pressured, do you understand? You have to be willing to fork that out, that means if I’m doing a visual project and a sonic project together you can imagine what we’ve talking about, that means you’re filming over a year’s time, many days, that means editing, you’re into six figures easy. And then on the sonic, if you’re working on something for a year with the musicians and studio time, you’re into six figures easy and I don’t just mean a 100 each, so therefore you’ve got to be willing to say, okay I’m going to put up my own money, and then you have power and they don’t control. They can come in and say, I don’t like it, but you can say, well I can find a different distributor. So that’s the difference between having a joint venture than having a proper record deal.
Will it be some kind of DVD or a CD/DVD release?
I don’t know, I think I want to offer people visuals with the music but I’d like it at the same price point – I’d love to give people this other experience so that they can watch it and listen and they don’t have to pay that dearly for it, that is my dream since I’m the one forking the money up, it’s a very ambitious project what I’m doing right now because it’s all moving picture, so imagine silent movies but with songs. These are not videos they are visualettes.
Do the songs made up one big story?
Well, yes, but it’s in short story form, so they’re interconnected it’s more episodic like episodes that you would get week to week.
Sounds like a concept album!
[Laughs]Well, I’m a concept person because visuals have become really integral for me with music now to not utilise it is just dropping the ball and I’m so inspired by it. I loved doing the comic book.
Tell me about how Comic Book Tattoo came about, are you a comic book fan?
I am a comic book fan but also I’m fascinated by what the medium can do and I think through that medium you can cross into territory that tell stories in a way... for instance in Siren they cover a guy’s fantasy of another woman and he gets so lost in it that he kills his wife and his child
and you can cover this in comic form, really indepth subjects that you might not be covering, say, in a video. And because it’s animation I think you can go into some pretty poignant, really important subjects that MTV wouldn’t want to see. They don’t want to see the abuse of an Arab by guys in New York on, you know, Nickelodeon. In Scarlett’s Walk that subject is covered, so there’s a lot of subject matters that are covered in the comic book that you might not be as able to as easily depict in pop culture film.
I am a comic book fan but also I’m fascinated by what the medium can do and I think through that medium you can cross into territory that tell stories in a way... for instance in Siren they cover a guy’s fantasy of another woman and he gets so lost in it that he kills his wife and his child
and you can cover this in comic form, really indepth subjects that you might not be covering, say, in a video. And because it’s animation I think you can go into some pretty poignant, really important subjects that MTV wouldn’t want to see. They don’t want to see the abuse of an Arab by guys in New York on, you know, Nickelodeon. In Scarlett’s Walk that subject is covered, so there’s a lot of subject matters that are covered in the comic book that you might not be as able to as easily depict in pop culture film.And you ended up at ComicCon. How was that?
Yeah, I went as sort of my own comic book character, in Margiela [Maison Martin Margiele is a Belgium fashion designer] of course, and the designer had sent stuff for me to go so it had just come off the cat walk in Paris and it was...I don’t think some of the Americans really understood what it was, but that’s okay, I think they thought it was more Conan The Barbarian than Paris catwalk but what do they know about the Paris catwalk, some of those people? [laughs] But my stylist is the woman I told you about, whose been with me since Little Earthquakes, she’s the African American woman, you might have seen her this morning. She's done everything that I do from the beginning to this vintage dress I just picked up.
Tell me about the Legs & Boots bootlegs, I know they went down really well with fans. Is it something you would consider doing again?
Yeah, I went as sort of my own comic book character, in Margiela [Maison Martin Margiele is a Belgium fashion designer] of course, and the designer had sent stuff for me to go so it had just come off the cat walk in Paris and it was...I don’t think some of the Americans really understood what it was, but that’s okay, I think they thought it was more Conan The Barbarian than Paris catwalk but what do they know about the Paris catwalk, some of those people? [laughs] But my stylist is the woman I told you about, whose been with me since Little Earthquakes, she’s the African American woman, you might have seen her this morning. She's done everything that I do from the beginning to this vintage dress I just picked up.
I would consider it but I might get divorced. [laughs] My husband might divorce me if I do it again, because he was up, he was mixing them every night and uploading them every night, they got ploaded the same night and I think that kind of commitment, he never slept and he was in really good health before Legs And Boots and then he started smoking again just to survive it all, so to do it again like that there would have to be a schedule that could work so that the crew stays alive through it, I mean they would be uploading by four in the morning. My crew did all the work it would be uploaded and then the Sony side of things would be asleep and cosy in their beds bless them and you know I understand that’s part of the game and the guys on the road have to take the brunt of it but then they have to get up for a 7 o’clock loading call. So it was a three hour, kind of, take a nap and then do it again. The demand to do boots every night is a really exciting idea but we might have to figure out a way to do it so I don’t get divorced.
It’s an incredibly giving thing to do for your fans, is that relationship important to you?
The relationship I have with the audience is near and dear to me. You always try, well I think you always try and give a performance that’s unique to the one the night before but that’s the kind of show that I do. I don’t do a show whereby it starts from the beginning and it ends and there’s 50 dancers on stage and that has to be really organised. I mean you can’t really just turn around in the middle [like that] and say, okay I’m going to do this song that I haven’t done in 10 years, whereas if you just have a band up there and it’s you and you have other musicians that can just have a sip of their beer, you can do it, that’s different, you can do that. And I’ve always enjoyed working off an audience, I mean I can’t stay off the road too long, it’s in my blood, I’m a road dog, but I can’t do the tours like I used to do, the six-months tours because of [daughter] Tash now, we can’t and she’s got to come on the road. We’re a family, we’re a travelling sonic circus and yet she’s eight now so we can’t have her out for that long, so we’ve had to shift our idea of touring and I’m just trying to figure out what they can be and for how long and what that means.
The relationship I have with the audience is near and dear to me. You always try, well I think you always try and give a performance that’s unique to the one the night before but that’s the kind of show that I do. I don’t do a show whereby it starts from the beginning and it ends and there’s 50 dancers on stage and that has to be really organised. I mean you can’t really just turn around in the middle [like that] and say, okay I’m going to do this song that I haven’t done in 10 years, whereas if you just have a band up there and it’s you and you have other musicians that can just have a sip of their beer, you can do it, that’s different, you can do that. And I’ve always enjoyed working off an audience, I mean I can’t stay off the road too long, it’s in my blood, I’m a road dog, but I can’t do the tours like I used to do, the six-months tours because of [daughter] Tash now, we can’t and she’s got to come on the road. We’re a family, we’re a travelling sonic circus and yet she’s eight now so we can’t have her out for that long, so we’ve had to shift our idea of touring and I’m just trying to figure out what they can be and for how long and what that means.
Do you have plans for other DVDs, such as the Plugged performance, it would be great to have a document of your past tours…
Yeah it would be nice to have a document but the thing is when you’re dealing with whoever owns the film, they are in the power position. And we go back to the thing you said about Sonic Youth, when you’re not in partnership with whatever the project is then you don’t hold the cards. Right now whatever I do in the future, I hold the cards, but that’s because I’m paying for it, let’s be honest. What you’re talking about that was a VH1 thing, they hold the cards, they would want to put it out. Montreux, they’re with Eagle Rock now, they wanted to put it out, but I’m not with Warner now so we had to come to an agreement and it was much more respectful than if I had been caught, say, in a record deal. Think about it, this is like the Wild Wild West that was, but it’s like the sonic Wild Wild West. How are you going to distribute yourself worldwide but not be in subjugation to a major, because if you’re with an indie you still have to consider… I mean they might smoke pot with you and hang out but don’t fool yourselves, they’re still going to get a cut and they still have to work with big brother to distribute, because there’s only in America, five, six major distributors and they’re mostly owned by a major, do you understand? So sometimes I’m thinking, well I’m not going to deal with the little cheeses, give me the big cheese and I’m bringing the wine. And if we don’t work, then I’ll take my wine and crackers and go somewhere else, but you can only do that and you can only control your DVDs and your Legs & Boots when you are in partnership but most artists they’re caught up in these contracts. It was just divine intervention that I was able to manoeuvre myself out of the clutches of the Sony system. It was kind of paranormal and it shouldn’t have happened but it did happen. I knew that I needed a different situation and I don’t know exactly what that situation is going to be. But I don’t control those things unless I pay for them.
Yeah it would be nice to have a document but the thing is when you’re dealing with whoever owns the film, they are in the power position. And we go back to the thing you said about Sonic Youth, when you’re not in partnership with whatever the project is then you don’t hold the cards. Right now whatever I do in the future, I hold the cards, but that’s because I’m paying for it, let’s be honest. What you’re talking about that was a VH1 thing, they hold the cards, they would want to put it out. Montreux, they’re with Eagle Rock now, they wanted to put it out, but I’m not with Warner now so we had to come to an agreement and it was much more respectful than if I had been caught, say, in a record deal. Think about it, this is like the Wild Wild West that was, but it’s like the sonic Wild Wild West. How are you going to distribute yourself worldwide but not be in subjugation to a major, because if you’re with an indie you still have to consider… I mean they might smoke pot with you and hang out but don’t fool yourselves, they’re still going to get a cut and they still have to work with big brother to distribute, because there’s only in America, five, six major distributors and they’re mostly owned by a major, do you understand? So sometimes I’m thinking, well I’m not going to deal with the little cheeses, give me the big cheese and I’m bringing the wine. And if we don’t work, then I’ll take my wine and crackers and go somewhere else, but you can only do that and you can only control your DVDs and your Legs & Boots when you are in partnership but most artists they’re caught up in these contracts. It was just divine intervention that I was able to manoeuvre myself out of the clutches of the Sony system. It was kind of paranormal and it shouldn’t have happened but it did happen. I knew that I needed a different situation and I don’t know exactly what that situation is going to be. But I don’t control those things unless I pay for them.
Is that frustrating for you?
Well, but you have to know the game. If you’re going to go on VH1 then they control it, because otherwise they would say… for instance the DVD that’s coming out of the Posse, which I fondly call Posse Comes Alive, but that’s just what I call it.
And do you own that?
I own it. But that’s because I paid for it. But I haven’t been able to finish it yet. But if that were to come out, then I would put it out through a distributor so I’m in more control of what comes out. But I wasn’t in control of things that came out in the past in that way I have to have an agreement with VH1, it’s about who holds the cards and in this case Eagle Rock hold the cards but I have a great relationship with Claude Nobs and he wanted to put it out and because I’m not a signed artist to Montreux or Eagle Rock, then they do it deal by deal. So it’s very different when you’re an artist in a contract, it’s a very different world.
When do you think we’ll see that?
You’re going to see it. You’re going to be exposed to this multi-media project first and then you’ll see it, it’s going to come out but what’s happening is it takes a lot of editing and the guy that shot it is out on tour with Madonna tour right now. Christian Lamb is the director, and he’ll be in London doing all the video footage for her live show.
It sounds incredibly different and fun…
It’s going to be fun I think. But I’m in the thick of it. I’m halfway finished the project in my mind we’ll be mastering first of February but it’s visuals and songs.
Well, but you have to know the game. If you’re going to go on VH1 then they control it, because otherwise they would say… for instance the DVD that’s coming out of the Posse, which I fondly call Posse Comes Alive, but that’s just what I call it.
And do you own that?
I own it. But that’s because I paid for it. But I haven’t been able to finish it yet. But if that were to come out, then I would put it out through a distributor so I’m in more control of what comes out. But I wasn’t in control of things that came out in the past in that way I have to have an agreement with VH1, it’s about who holds the cards and in this case Eagle Rock hold the cards but I have a great relationship with Claude Nobs and he wanted to put it out and because I’m not a signed artist to Montreux or Eagle Rock, then they do it deal by deal. So it’s very different when you’re an artist in a contract, it’s a very different world.
When do you think we’ll see that?
You’re going to see it. You’re going to be exposed to this multi-media project first and then you’ll see it, it’s going to come out but what’s happening is it takes a lot of editing and the guy that shot it is out on tour with Madonna tour right now. Christian Lamb is the director, and he’ll be in London doing all the video footage for her live show.
It sounds incredibly different and fun…
It’s going to be fun I think. But I’m in the thick of it. I’m halfway finished the project in my mind we’ll be mastering first of February but it’s visuals and songs.
great interview. always interesting to get a peak into the mind of the artist (especially one that you love) and the process they have to go thru to bring their music to us.
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